Getting Matties old buggy home - & other stuff

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PUD
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Re: Getting Matties old buggy home - & other stuff

Postby PUD » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:01 am

Am hoping for some advice/ suggestions from anyone in the know this sort of stuff..... I did my time years ago as an "electrical fitter", although the "fitter" side of it only really gave enough knowledge to be dangerous :lol:
Anyway, have pulled the arms to pieces for a look, and really surprised at it having taper roller bearings fitted.
P1080581.jpg

It's my understanding that taper rollers are great for increased loading, especially end loads, but require setting with preload, too much preload (too tight) may cause bearing to bind & run hot, too little preload causing float/ movement in the axle, in turn with this case, causing the disc rotor to have movement potentially causing brake issues, wear, etc. In this instance on the rear stub axle I'm guessing the spacer length between the two bearing cups would be absolutely critical, as its not like the front axle which has a floating bearing cup with the bearing preload being set by how much you tighten the axle nut, where as the nut on the back stub axle needs to be tightened right up to lock off the drive spline (I think to be somewhere around 250 footpounds, which am thinking is basically coming right onto it with a 3/4 drive socket with a breaker bar & pipe off the end of it :shock: ). So am guessing if the spacer length is out either way, there may be problems.
Been looking at the standard setup,
P1080578.jpg
P1080580.jpg
that looks like it runs a standard ball bearing on the inner (to handle the end loads) with a roller bearing on the outer. Imagine this roller bearing is for increased loads on the outer, and would also allow for a bit of end float on the outer bearing once the axle nut had been flogged tight...

Anyway I guess my question is, am wondering if it would be better to revert back to the standard bearing setup as am not convinced I have the skills to measure & shim the taper rollers it to get it right... Suppose what I should do is put it back together, tighten the stub axle to specs & see how the preload is... as I mentioned, the whole thing looks like it's well built by someone professional, so the spacer length for preload may have already been sorted/ checked....
Any input anyone??? Thanks, Pud
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WaterRat
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Re: Getting Matties old buggy home - & other stuff

Postby WaterRat » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:58 am

Glad they made it :D
Yeah they are good & solid - like you say, weight is mostly in the rotors & callipers.

Now looking forward to seeing the result of your handiwork when you've got them fitted. :P I'll keep an eye on the "build" :)

Cheers
I may not have gone where I intended to go ... but I've ended up where I needed to be. :mrgreen: Douglas Adams.
PUD
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Re: Getting Matties old buggy home - & other stuff

Postby PUD » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:12 pm

G'day WaterRat, all arrived safe & sound in the cab of a roller being delivered south, thanks again... have been tinkering with things am now wondering whether should have grabbed the front 6 stud hubs off you too... Have way too many choices on which way to go at the moment :?

Realising on the forum have pretty much been talking to myself lately, but am still keen on jotting down progress & thought patterns, as have referred back here on numerous occasions in the past to recall how/ what / when things have been done & why...so why stop now?? :lol: :lol:

Ok, so pulled the hubs etc to bits, looks as though a lot of thought has gone into it all,... am a bit embarrassed to say that the penny has finally dropped for me, these on the 3x2's are type 2 stubs... (was thinking these stubs looked pretty chunky, all the talk in the past I thought was only referring to the flanges on the stubs to suit the various t1, t2 or 930 cv's, not the fact that the t1 stub axle shaft is around 30mm, whereas the t2's are around 35mm, hence the 36mm hub nut on the t1's, with 45 odd mm t2's... :oops: :oops: ) Everything I've read makes a lot more sense now :oops:
P1080588.jpg


Did have the thought to swap out Chubbies hubs onto the 3x2's to keep the wide 5 pattern, as the rotors are the same outside diameter as the EA ones (am a bit nostalgic & thought might be nice to keep wide 5 as a reminder of the vw heritage) but the different splines on the stubs/ hubs counts this out (guess could always re bearing it & swap to the t1 stubs too.... the length is the same...) Another reason is after weighing in the hubs for comparison (without the stubs or callipers, thinking could have an unsprung weight saving by running Chubby's hubs), Chubby's hubs are actually close to a kg heavier than the others anyway! So the t2 stubs, EA rotors it is. The only other way I can see to keep wide 5 is to make a new wide 5 adapter plate, but if this was 12mm steel, calced this to add 4.5kg each side.... so guess I'm not that nostalgic, the 6 stud will do (for now at least)
P1080592.jpg


Change of wheels required... realistically the ones on the back of Chubby wouldn't have worked with the 3x2's anyway, as the massive offset on the 10 inch rims would put things out way too far.. (offset inwards is about 85mm from the wheel mating surface to the outer lip of the rim compared to 190mm offset on the outside... afraid I'm very old school & like the look of plenty of dish... could be said the big offset has a lot of wank factor... guessin if the cap fits.. :lol: ), these 5 stud falcon pattern ones would actually bolt straight up to the EA rotors/ hub without the adapter..
P1080598.jpg
The 33's would be good for ground clearance but may create issues with the gearing, find that even with the gearing of the 1600 box & 31's, 1st gear is still a bit tall for a lot of the areas have been poking around in the bush...
P1080594.jpg
PUD
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Re: Getting Matties old buggy home - & other stuff

Postby PUD » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:25 pm

Will see how we go... thinking maybe a compromise with 32's?? Anyway, back to the EA rotors/ hubs. Am guessing the centre is a Kombi brake drum machined down & back to front to fit the EA rotor over... I like the collars installed in the mounting holes :)
P1080583.jpg

Did notice the rotor's aren't a snug fit over the machined hub (about 60 thou clearance) The adapter plate has also been machined to nicely fit the tapered edge on the hub centre, fitting snug on the hub without the rotor installed, but once the rotor is sat on & the adapter is spaced out on the taper, this also has around 60 thou clearance leaving not much other than the bolt tightness to keep everything centralised
P1080585.jpg


Guessing that would be ok, but can see a really easy fix of spinning up a bush/ sleeve to slot the rotor & adapter over to keep it all balanced & in the middle
P1080584.jpg


That's about as far as have got at the moment, now that the weather is warming up a bit down here, don't recon will install the arms till next winter when things shut down for a while but will still keep onto it to try to get everything sorted... Am really keen to see how the bigger callipers go on the back, as it did tend to lock the front up a bit early on hard braking, & if you look at the previous pics of Chubby's disc, doesn't actually look like its been working too hard...
Havin a ball :D , Pud
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Re: Getting Matties old buggy home - & other stuff

Postby BBTJ » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:23 pm

8) Keep building mate....we are watching :lol: :lol:

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